Just so ya know, you are not predestined to hell, though you are predisposed for hell. We were all tainted by the corrupted sinful nature (not to be confused with the human nature) that we inherited from Adam, and therefore unfit for heaven. But, where sin did abound, grace did much more abound, and the atonement of Jesus gave pre-born and new born babies and infant children accessibility to God.
There comes a time in each person's life, when he becomes responsible for his own sins before God. The Bible says that Christ is the Savior of all men, especially them that believe. According to the Bible, the atonement of Jesus is adequate for the sins of the entire world, since He died for the sins of the whole world. Therefore you were not neglected nor unselected, but you have the opportunity to be elected (chosen) by God, by receiving and trusting Christ, in response to His call.
The Bible says that many are called, but few are chosen. You will be one of the chosen if you trust in Christ alone for your salvation and follow Him fully. The seal of God is this, that you have departed from sin. You can make your calling and election sure by accepting His grace, walking in His grace and growing in His grace.
Biblical Predestination...
Biblical Predestination has to do with the HOW of salvation, rather than WHO of salvation. UnBiblical predestination is DOUBLE, UNILATERAL UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION, which is the erroneous and odious idea that God chooses to provide salvation for some people and chooses to leave others without the offer or the hope of salvation from sin and eternal judgment.
Predestination is to Predestine, it is to Predetermine.
God has predetermined that the only way to be saved is...
By Grace...
Through Faith...
In Christ.
Believers are predestined (enabled and expected) to live a life of...
Holiness...
Faithfulness
Obedience.
There is no other way to God than through grace, faith, Christ, holiness, faithfulness and obedience.
Do not fear these high ideals, since they are attainable by God's enabling power in us.
A Calvinist friend made comment that a Cherokee Indian in the 1500s would therefore be predestined to hell.
DLG response...
I was not aware that my FB posts were being read by Cherokees born in the 1500's. Notice, my post addresses people who are exposed to my post. Therefore, I know that they have an opportunity to get saved.
Remember, I am saying that predestination has to do with how, not who. In other words, God did foreknow the future, but that does not mean that God either chose for anyone to sin or for anyone to not hear the gospel. So, NO, I don't think that the fact of man's sinful condition means that God predetermined that anyone would go to hell. He foreknew it, He did not predestine it.
We also do not have any evidence that your Cherokee friend did not hear the gospel.
I am not saying he did, but I do know this...
"It is not the will of God that any should perish." 2 Pe. 3:9
I was not aware that my FB posts were being read by Cherokees born in the 1500's. Notice, my post addresses people who are exposed to my post. Therefore, I know that they have an opportunity to get saved.
Remember, I am saying that predestination has to do with how, not who. In other words, God did foreknow the future, but that does not mean that God either chose for anyone to sin or for anyone to not hear the gospel. So, NO, I don't think that the fact of man's sinful condition means that God predetermined that anyone would go to hell. He foreknew it, He did not predestine it.
We also do not have any evidence that your Cherokee friend did not hear the gospel.
I am not saying he did, but I do know this...
"It is not the will of God that any should perish." 2 Pe. 3:9
"God would have all men come to the knowledge of the truth." 1 Tm. 2:4
"There is a light that enlightens every man that comes into the world." Jn. 1:9
"God gave His Son for the sins of the world." Mt. 1:21 and Jn. 3:16.
"Jesus is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world." Jn. 1:29
"Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." 1 Tm. 4:10
"Christ is the propitiation (satisfaction) for our sins and also for the sins of the whole world." 1 Jn. 2:2.
But, let's get back to the present time. The great commission is to take the gospel and make disciples. Those who refuse the gospel are lost forever. But God, Who gave His Only Begotten Son, has also sent His children into the world so that the unsaved might hear and believe. No one can tell anyone that they may not come to Christ through faith. That would be heresy.
Yes, sin separates from God. But that does not mean that God predestined anyone to go to hell. No one can honestly tell a contemporary that Jesus did not die for them.
There is no way to come the Father, except through faith in Christ. There is no other name, under heaven, given among men, by which anyone can be saved.
But the fact of sin, the fact of disbelief, the fact of hell, the fact of eternal loss does not ever indicate that God predetermined the eternal suffering of anyone. Everyone has chosen to sin, and most of those who hear the gospel choose not to believe in Christ.
Jesus has made provision for all of Adam's children to be saved. Salvation is not of works, but neither is it given unconditionally or unilaterally nor does God unilaterally abandon, ignore or deny salvation to anyone.
For the things I don't understand, I leave with God. But I do understand, according to the Bible, that God provides salvation for the whole world.
Consider the words, Destined and Predestined. Everyone has been destined for hell at some time, because all of us have chosen to live in sin, live in defiance of the law of God. But it was self determined, not God determined. Going to hell is the destiny for sinners. God did not choose for us to sin and He did not predestine, predetermine, pre-choose for us to go to hell. He did predetermine that the wages of sin is death, but He also predetermined that whosoever would call on the name of the Lord would be saved.
My friend reiterated his earlier position, and said that God made some clay for good and some clay for bad, for His own reasons.
DLG response...
I did get your point. I realize your Bible and my Bible have the same verses.
God has foreknowledge, but God did not create some people to be damned forever, though He knew they would. In some way, beyond my understanding, and in varying degrees, God has made His message known in the minds, hearts of all men. There is none with excuse. Everyone is accountable.
However, we are saved by faith and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. God employs believers in the publishing of the Good News. How can they believe if they do not hear and how can they hear if there is no preacher. God wanted His message to be told to the entire world. Just because it does not get accomplished does not mean God designed it to fail or created men to be damned.
God enables us to make a free choice, when we hear the gospel. I believe Christ died for all men, but not all men will believe on Christ. Foreknowledge is not based on predestination or the fallacy of Divine, unconditional, unilateral, double election. Foreknowledge is foreknowledge, it is not foreordination.
The provision was made for all men to be saved. Just because all men are not saved, does not indicate that they could not have been saved, had the opportunity been available. Men are lost because they sin. Men are saved because they believe on Christ. All men have sinned and the wages of their sin is their death, separation from God forever, in torment. Not all men hear the gospel, not all men believe the gospel, but God would like for all men to hear the gospel and to believe the gospel and be saved. But they won't, so they will be lost.
We are sent into the world so that men might hear and believe and be saved. When the light of truth is hidden or held back, people die without Christ (sometimes to the shame of believers). THAT IS NOT THE WILL OF GOD. However, God does not force anyone to be saved and He does not predestine, elect anyone to damnation. As much as I care about those who have never heard, we cannot say that God did not have a plan to reach them. This is the way it has been since God gave Adam a free will. Men do not always obey God. Disobedience results in separation from God. As with Adam, so with people today. As Adam's sin impacted the entire world, so our actions impact other people for good or ill.
The point that is more important for us, is, does God want anyone to go to hell. The answer is NO. Yet they go. Not because God does not want them to be saved, but because they do not hear the gospel and/or believe the gospel.
Whatever foreknowledge does mean, it does not mean and cannot mean that God WILLED, God CHOSE, God ELECTED, God ABANDONED anyone to go to hell, without Him having a plan to reach them. The plan (which was God's) was there, the action (which is man's) has not been there.
XXX. you are making good points and asking great questions. Unhappily, This format does not allow for an adequate communication between us. I have tons of things to say, but obviously this format limits us. I cannot even list all of the verses, to which I refer, simply because it would make the comment longer and take longer to reply.
Here is a simplified conclusion to this comment. If we believe that Jesus did die for all men (as I do) then our focus should be on telling the Good News, rather than claiming that God created some people to be damned. There is nothing redemptive or good about such a message.
I did get your point. I realize your Bible and my Bible have the same verses.
God has foreknowledge, but God did not create some people to be damned forever, though He knew they would. In some way, beyond my understanding, and in varying degrees, God has made His message known in the minds, hearts of all men. There is none with excuse. Everyone is accountable.
However, we are saved by faith and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. God employs believers in the publishing of the Good News. How can they believe if they do not hear and how can they hear if there is no preacher. God wanted His message to be told to the entire world. Just because it does not get accomplished does not mean God designed it to fail or created men to be damned.
God enables us to make a free choice, when we hear the gospel. I believe Christ died for all men, but not all men will believe on Christ. Foreknowledge is not based on predestination or the fallacy of Divine, unconditional, unilateral, double election. Foreknowledge is foreknowledge, it is not foreordination.
The provision was made for all men to be saved. Just because all men are not saved, does not indicate that they could not have been saved, had the opportunity been available. Men are lost because they sin. Men are saved because they believe on Christ. All men have sinned and the wages of their sin is their death, separation from God forever, in torment. Not all men hear the gospel, not all men believe the gospel, but God would like for all men to hear the gospel and to believe the gospel and be saved. But they won't, so they will be lost.
We are sent into the world so that men might hear and believe and be saved. When the light of truth is hidden or held back, people die without Christ (sometimes to the shame of believers). THAT IS NOT THE WILL OF GOD. However, God does not force anyone to be saved and He does not predestine, elect anyone to damnation. As much as I care about those who have never heard, we cannot say that God did not have a plan to reach them. This is the way it has been since God gave Adam a free will. Men do not always obey God. Disobedience results in separation from God. As with Adam, so with people today. As Adam's sin impacted the entire world, so our actions impact other people for good or ill.
The point that is more important for us, is, does God want anyone to go to hell. The answer is NO. Yet they go. Not because God does not want them to be saved, but because they do not hear the gospel and/or believe the gospel.
Whatever foreknowledge does mean, it does not mean and cannot mean that God WILLED, God CHOSE, God ELECTED, God ABANDONED anyone to go to hell, without Him having a plan to reach them. The plan (which was God's) was there, the action (which is man's) has not been there.
XXX. you are making good points and asking great questions. Unhappily, This format does not allow for an adequate communication between us. I have tons of things to say, but obviously this format limits us. I cannot even list all of the verses, to which I refer, simply because it would make the comment longer and take longer to reply.
Here is a simplified conclusion to this comment. If we believe that Jesus did die for all men (as I do) then our focus should be on telling the Good News, rather than claiming that God created some people to be damned. There is nothing redemptive or good about such a message.
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